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NL100 Valuebet on the river?

NL100 Valuebet on the river? - 09-03-2009, 15:05
Benutzerbild von Kamu1337
Since: Oct 2007
Posts: 131
Villain has 24/22/~ on 41 hands (very small samplesize)
I saw him turning over 2 hands - Jacks and 3s
I only played 1 hand against him, where he was the initial raiser, he contibetted on the flop and c/f on the turn.
And he is a hard multitabler

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (8 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

saw flop

MP2 ($126.05)
Hero (CO) ($106.35)
Button ($100)
SB ($132.05)
BB ($29)
UTG ($21.50)
UTG+1 ($101.50)
MP1 ($140.95)

Preflop: Hero is CO with ,
2 folds, MP1 bets $4, 1 fold, Hero calls $4, 2 folds, BB calls $3

Flop: ($12.50) , , (3 players)
BB checks, MP1 bets $8, Hero calls $8, BB calls $8

Turn: ($36.50) (3 players)
BB checks, MP1 checks, Hero bets $15, 1 fold, MP1 calls $15

River: ($66.50) (2 players)
MP1 checks, Hero checks

Total pot: $66.50 | Rake: $3

I wanted to see what happens on the turn and called - pretty standard i think.
As villain checked i thought i that i knew i had the best hand and bet maybe an amount that is too small, but i dont really know.
I didnt like the check, cuz i didnt want to give any free card on that drawy board, even though i had no clue about the shortstack, but he seemed not pretty strong.
Ok, now my question is... should i valuebet the river or check behind?
09-03-2009, 15:28
Benutzerbild von xflixx
Since: Aug 2007
Posts: 10.770

This is getting a bit longish...I hope you bear with me

First off, I would fold or 3Bet preflop vs this Villain, more folds > 3bets. By calling pre you risk having no good relative position, and as it turned out, you did not. This makes the hand harder to play when you hit TP type hands postflop in a multiway pot. By calling (and you usually cannot raise here because you are building too big of a pot for your hand strength and would need to fold to a further raise) on this super wet board you are also giving super enticing odds for multiway callers.

Getting to the turn and given his check his most likely Range is TT-AA, AK and some draws with Clubs. I like betting the Turn a little bigger, also because BB hangs around with lots of drawing and inferior hands. You maxmimize by betting a little on the bigger side so you can check behind on the River for a free Showdown in case he olbiges with AA or AK.

As played, I would check behind on the River here. I cannot see Villain continuing after calling the Turn multiway with less than AK or AA or a Draw like etc. which did not get there. In both cases I do not see any Value in betting the River except if Villain opens Hands like KT or KJ. I also strongly presume he will fold and when you bet the River.
09-03-2009, 15:54
Benutzerbild von Kamu1337
Since: Oct 2007
Posts: 131
Relative Position is a good point.
U are right, when saying, that it's a decent problem, even though i like playing hands from late position especially while having a decent hand.
Maybe i should think about 3betting from late position more often.
Anyway it's still difficult:
I think that relative position has more importance for early/mid position, because the amount of potential callers decrease with position.
And when i'm calling from the BTN, SB and BB still can't call pretty easily with SC/PPs (cuz they are OOP for the rest of the hand).

Do u consider calling on the BTN here instead of CO?
09-03-2009, 16:07
Benutzerbild von Wiegi85
Since: Jan 2008
Posts: 671
I agree with xflixx.

I would like to see a bigger bet on the Turn (around 25$).
Check behind on the river is really good. I don't see any Value in betting, too.

I would really wonder about the BB here. Guess u should make a note. Its very strange. BB (only 30 BB) calls oop preflop. When he calls the Flop I would guess he had a FD in that Spot. But what he called preflop? Suited Connectors? With only 30BB?

BB seems not only weak in the Hand to me- looks like a fish to me
09-03-2009, 19:10
Benutzerbild von xTheSnowmanx
Since: Aug 2007
Posts: 1.214
ez bet $24 turn with nearly your whole range.

I'd would check the river behind as well, see reasons above.
11-03-2009, 18:44
Benutzerbild von Zycho_flo
Since: Oct 2007
Posts: 1.216
Sry, aber warum schreibt ihr auf english???
11-03-2009, 20:52
Benutzerbild von crowsen
Since: Sep 2007
Posts: 5.697
Weil wir checken raisen und callen und nicht schieben, erhöhen und mitgehen.

- schieben tun nur schiedsrichter beim fussball
- erhöhen tun Sie doch eh nur die Steuern
- mitgehen haben die Mädels bei mir mit 14 NIE angekreuzt

(eventuel aber auch, weil der OP kein Deutsch kann!)
12-03-2009, 00:28
Benutzerbild von Zycho_flo
Since: Oct 2007
Posts: 1.216
Aber OP kommt doch aus Fürth...

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